MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
Ever replied to a text from a number you didn't know? Yeah, me too. And so, it emerges, has Andy Burnham, the new Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. On the other end was Susie Wiles, President Trump's chief of staff. At least that is what the prime minister thought. In fact, it was not Wiles but someone impersonating her. Sam Blewett broke the story for Politico. He is on the line from London. Hi, Sam.
SAM BLEWETT: Hi, Mary Louise.
KELLY: Hi. So reporters were asking Prime Minister Burnham today about these texts. Here's what he said.
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PRIME MINISTER ANDY BURNHAM: There was a minimal exchange of information of zero consequence, and it was quickly reported.
KELLY: OK. So minimal exchange, zero consequence. Sam Blewett, can you confirm that? Do we know what was in these messages?
BLEWETT: I can't confirm that. I mean, I don't think we have the foggiest, really, what's in those messages, other than what we've heard from Andy Burnham today and from our sources in government in the last few days. Yeah, from the off, I was told it was just a few messages, and they were of little consequence. But, yeah, we haven't seen any evidence to support this at the moment.
KELLY: Do we know what platform? Like, was this just a plain old text message or was it on Signal or some other encrypted app?
BLEWETT: I'm not entirely sure. What we do know is they didn't speak verbally. Because Susie Wiles, I know, has been caught up in a bit of a hacking incident in the past where some people believe they were speaking to her. It's not the case this time around, at least.
KELLY: So worth noting, this is not the first imposter incident for the Trump administration. I'm remembering last summer, Secretary of State Marco Rubio had an impersonator, who was making voice calls, kept calling foreign dignitaries. Also worth noting, this is not the first impostor incident for Susie Wiles. The Wall Street Journal was reporting last year that someone pretending to be Wiles was texting senators, texting business leaders, and that she said her phone had been hacked. You asked the White House about this. They told you it's not related, that this summer's incident has nothing to do with last summer's?
BLEWETT: Yeah, that's correct. They said this has nothing to do with a hack of her devices, plural, which I ought was quite interesting. But yeah, this time around, they insist not the case. But definitely in Britain, there was concerns that this was related to the hack of her account. And, you know, the British embassy in D.C. did get into the White House to warn them, as far as I understand.
KELLY: You had a follow-up story today. You and your colleagues found the personal cell phone numbers of three U.K. Cabinet ministers, including the defense secretary, had been published publicly online. One number has been deleted. I gather officials are working to scrub the other two. I mean, what does this tell us about Britain's information security?
BLEWETT: Yeah. I think we were really surprised to find them. We sort of, as just a bit of, you know, an idea on how we continue to look at the security of phone usage in the government, we thought we'd see if the Cabinet numbers are on the internet. And there we were. Within, I think, about 20 seconds, I found Defense Secretary Wes Streeting's number hanging about on a website.
KELLY: Twenty seconds.
BLEWETT: I think it was about 20 seconds. It was a real breeze, to be honest. But I'm surprised more than anything that there isn't someone in the government checking this, you know, to prevent, you know, more nefarious actors finding this information. And, you know, we obviously decided not to disclose where we found those numbers. But yeah, if you had a good idea, you could track them down.
KELLY: It seems like one takeaway here would seem to be, look, we all know it's 2026, fraud is rampant. We all need to be careful with our communications. You should be careful, even if you are a prime minister or a White House chief of staff. Is another takeaway, though, that public figures who wield great power, should maybe get on more secure platforms, should think about vetting or having somebody who's vetting phone numbers before you hit reply?
BLEWETT: I think that's a really good point, and - but at the same time, I think that's so hard, particularly with this president. I think we know how eager he is to pick up his phone and field calls from presidents to reporters, alike. So I think, you know, you can't really stand by and get someone to check out a communication when it's a president of the United States, Donald Trump, calling.
KELLY: That's a great point. The number of reporters here in Washington who have picked up...
BLEWETT: Right.
KELLY: ...A phone call, and it turns out to be the president of the United States. Yeah. Like, it becomes more plausible that maybe his chief of staff is texting.
BLEWETT: Exactly that. Exactly that. And, I mean, it was the past concerns about hacking Susie Wiles' phone I think that alerted officials here that, you know, this might not be what it seems. So at least having this stuff out in the public hopefully helps create a bit more security and suspicion. We have dodgy contacts in the future.
KELLY: Sam Blewett, reporter for Politico, joining us from London. Sam, thank you.
BLEWETT: Thanks. It's been a pleasure. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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