Dr. Stephen Renard on whether Chicken Soup is good for the soul...and the sinuses

[00:00:00] Automatically transcribed and lightly edited
Michael Lyon: This is "Heartbeat," conversations about medical science, research, and the discoveries that touch our lives, in collaboration with the University of Nebraska Medical Center.I'm Michael Lyon. My guest today is Dr. Stephen Renard, professor, UNMC Division of Pulmonary, Critical Care, and Sleep Medicine at the University of Nebraska Medical Center. Today, we'll be talking about why partnerships between academia and industry are so important in medical science. But before we dive into that, here is one of my favorite examples of how a scientific discovery can take on a life of its own. More than 25 years ago, Dr. Renard took his wife's grandmother's chicken soup recipe into the lab to test whether it might actually help fight colds. The results were published in a peer-reviewed journal in 2000, and it's still making headlines around the world, particularly around flu season. Not bad for a bowl of soup. Dr. Renard, before we tackle [00:01:00] academia-industry partnerships, let's stir the pot a little. What exactly did you find? And does science now officially endorse chicken soup for the soul and the sinuses?
Stephen Renard: Okay, so I will say at the outset that our, research, which we did rigorously, isn't an endorsement of any exact therapies. We could talk about what's required for that, and what we did was, novel scientific discovery, but insufficient to really draw medical conclusions. to cut to the chase, though, if you always believed that your grandmother's recommendation to have chicken soup when you had a cold was good, this would be some evidence in support of that belief. What we did in the laboratory is study how inflammation works, so I can talk about the details of that. but my wife was making chicken soup one, Jewish holidays, and she says, "Grandma always, said this is good for colds." Grandma, of course, her grandmother was not the only person who said that. It's pretty common. and I said, "Oh, it probably has some anti-inflammatory activity." [00:02:00] She said, "Really?" I said, "Yeah, we could test that in the lab," which is, of course, what we did anyway. Now, the reason anti-inflammatory activity might be useful when you get a cold is colds are generally caused by viruses. There are some viruses that are famous for doing it, and many kinds of viruses can do that, and it causes an infection of the lining of the mouth and the throat. It can do other things as well. That really isn't what leads to symptoms so much as the inflammatory response to the infection. Now, the inflammatory response is important in, controlling the infection, but inflammation, in the body, if you get it in your skin, your skin gets hot and red and hurts. in your throat, it makes you get a sore throat and all the symptoms. And so, an anti-inflammatory activity would reduce symptoms. So, what we tested In the laboratory was one important, but one o-of many, kinds of inflammatory responses in the body. The inflammatory system [00:03:00] contains white cells. The white cells are important in getting rid of bacteria. they kill bacteria, and if they come into your throat, they will make your throat be irritated. They have to move to get to where they are, and we could study, we did routinely study, the ability of these cells to move. What we tested in the laboratory was whether grandma's chicken soup would block that process. That is, would the cells move less? And it did. Omaha tap water, which was an ingredient of the chicken soup, did not. but pretty much every ingredient in the chicken soup had the potential for doing that. we did a number of controls, as you might guess, to show that this really was what we were observing. but it's pretty... It was pretty clear that chicken soup does contain things that have the potential for slowing the ability of this one kind of white cell called a neutrophil to migrate. Now, whether that happens if you eat it, we didn't test. We just tested the soup on the cells in the [00:04:00] laboratory. and whether if you-- if it does work, if whether that would actually account for the symptoms, We could speculate that it might, but we didn't do any of those things. So, this would be support of grandma's recommendations, but it's far from being s-sort of a medically advisable recommendation.
Michael Lyon: Yeah. it-- that is very interesting 'cause it, it certainly does, point to the fact that, even, early clinical studies may have some optimistic leanings, but there is a lot more that has to go on before that becomes, a-accepted as a path to follow and certainly, for a patient treatment. But I think we'll still stick with the chicken soup when we feel ill.
Stephen Renard: At home, we like to get chicken soup when we feel ill. my wife likes to point out that somebody makes the chicken soup for you, it's better than if you buy a can of it, which is still probably still okay, especially if somebody else makes it for you. And that sort of somebody taking care of you, that TLC factor, shouldn't be [00:05:00] downplayed. Having somebody take care of you when you're ill will make you feel better. actually, there's now quite a bit of evidence supporting that activates a whole variety of physiologic responses. And so it's certainly not a placebo effect. It's a real effect of having somebody take care of you. So just having somebody make the soup for you, and of course it, if it tastes good, that's another clear plus, will be useful, yeah.
Michael Lyon: I do want to make a note for listeners here. We do not actually have that chicken soup recipe here. it will not be on our website , but-
Stephen Renard: It is available on the UNMC website.
Michael Lyon: There you go.
Stephen Renard: So people, if people do want to get it, uh, as I said, I can't re-recommend it, with, as, as a medical remedy, but it sure does taste good.
Michael Lyon:  My guest today has been Dr. Stephen Renard, professor, UNMC Division of Pulmonary Critical Care and Sleep Medicine at the University of Nebraska Medical Center. Dr. renard will return next week to talk about why partnerships between academia and industry are so important in medical science. I'm Michael Lyon, and this is Heartbeat.